Is it fraud though? Not necessarily… You could just say “I found this baby, and now it’s mine”, and if it’s young enough it’ll get birthright citizenship
But this is mostly splitting hairs… But more fundamentally, I don’t believe people can be illegal for existing, so I’m never going to say someone is.
But would Superman get deported if they knew his history? MAGA people are saying they’d deport Jesus if he didn’t come in “the right way”, you tell me
There is lies by omission. I’ve never found an extraterrestrial child and made a declaration to get them citizenship and adopt them, but I’d imagine the process isn’t just based on trust. Otherwise, there would be no kids needing to normalise their status. All would just get ‘adopted’ by a citizen at a young age.
It’s not meant to be an issue due to birthright citizenship and natural born etc, however. My recollection of the original movie is they found him in his spaceship. In Smallville, the spaceship was hidden in their barn. I think they told people in town he was from Martha’s family elsewhere and they adopted him. I don’t fully recall, but there was definitely subterfuge. I don’t know what the comic said. I don’t think they would go into the beurocracy of the adoption process, either way, but having gone through it in real life, I can tell you that it’s long and slow with lots of checks and paperwork.
My point is that not only is he an immigrant, he’s likely an illegal immigrant under false pretense.
If you find a baby in a field (hiding the spaceship, let’s just leave that quiet), what happens next?
A baby cannot bear false witness… It’s a baby. The parents can, but that doesn’t necessarily affect the baby’s citizenship status
Trade it out for the assumed situation…a Kansas teen gave birth to the kid and left him in a field. This is an American with no documentation… But they’re assumed to be legit by their age. And so they get documentation
And yeah, Superman doesn’t match that situation exactly, but it looks the same from the outside. The state won’t know the difference
Ultimately, there are no illegal people. All these roles are made up… People live where they live. The system is the problem, not the people
I’m saying that to formally adopt him and to formally grant citizenship, lots of paperwork would need to be done. Some of that would require lies, so although the baby might not have lied, the Kent’s would have.
First thing with a child found without parents would be to call the police. They would look for identification or signs of the parents where found. Oh, spaceship!
I mean… I don’t think the paperwork is going to account for spaceships. So… Put the spaceship in the barn, say you found him out in the field, and there’s no fraud
Lies of omission don’t count when you’re dealing with the state
Doesn’t mean the Kent’s didn’t lie, just that they might not have done anything fraudulently
Well, more like I think he predates the surveillance state, and by virtue of growing up in Kansas he’s an American and no one would consider thinking otherwise (all of this legal/illegal nonsense is pretty new historically)
I’m not trying to split hairs, but I like to spread reminders that people live where they live, and the idea you can live in a county illegally is inhuman
The original comics are older but the current movie, of we assume superman is 30 makes him born in 1995. When do you think the surveillance state started?
Your personal views don’t change the law. I too would like open borders worldwide but we’re not there and each country has sovereignty to make their own laws and decide who is a citizen and under what conditions. Bit that’s even further from the point.
I picture Superman as crashing into Kansas in like the '30s, maybe with a bit of a slippery time scale. No way it was in the '90s… But I don’t know enough about Superman to argue the point, I just find the idea really unsettling
Is it fraud though? Not necessarily… You could just say “I found this baby, and now it’s mine”, and if it’s young enough it’ll get birthright citizenship
But this is mostly splitting hairs… But more fundamentally, I don’t believe people can be illegal for existing, so I’m never going to say someone is.
But would Superman get deported if they knew his history? MAGA people are saying they’d deport Jesus if he didn’t come in “the right way”, you tell me
There is lies by omission. I’ve never found an extraterrestrial child and made a declaration to get them citizenship and adopt them, but I’d imagine the process isn’t just based on trust. Otherwise, there would be no kids needing to normalise their status. All would just get ‘adopted’ by a citizen at a young age.
It’s not meant to be an issue due to birthright citizenship and natural born etc, however. My recollection of the original movie is they found him in his spaceship. In Smallville, the spaceship was hidden in their barn. I think they told people in town he was from Martha’s family elsewhere and they adopted him. I don’t fully recall, but there was definitely subterfuge. I don’t know what the comic said. I don’t think they would go into the beurocracy of the adoption process, either way, but having gone through it in real life, I can tell you that it’s long and slow with lots of checks and paperwork.
My point is that not only is he an immigrant, he’s likely an illegal immigrant under false pretense.
How can a baby give false pretense though?
If you find a baby in a field (hiding the spaceship, let’s just leave that quiet), what happens next?
A baby cannot bear false witness… It’s a baby. The parents can, but that doesn’t necessarily affect the baby’s citizenship status
Trade it out for the assumed situation…a Kansas teen gave birth to the kid and left him in a field. This is an American with no documentation… But they’re assumed to be legit by their age. And so they get documentation
And yeah, Superman doesn’t match that situation exactly, but it looks the same from the outside. The state won’t know the difference
Ultimately, there are no illegal people. All these roles are made up… People live where they live. The system is the problem, not the people
I’m saying that to formally adopt him and to formally grant citizenship, lots of paperwork would need to be done. Some of that would require lies, so although the baby might not have lied, the Kent’s would have.
First thing with a child found without parents would be to call the police. They would look for identification or signs of the parents where found. Oh, spaceship!
I mean… I don’t think the paperwork is going to account for spaceships. So… Put the spaceship in the barn, say you found him out in the field, and there’s no fraud
Lies of omission don’t count when you’re dealing with the state
Doesn’t mean the Kent’s didn’t lie, just that they might not have done anything fraudulently
Lol, when you’re adopting a child, they certainly do. Lying to obtain a child you otherwise wouldn’t is fraud.
Anyway, were too far into hypotheticals here to make it worthwhile I get your point, you get mine. We disagree.
Either way, he’s an immigrant at the least. I think illegal immigrant. You think legal, by inconsequential lies.
Well, more like I think he predates the surveillance state, and by virtue of growing up in Kansas he’s an American and no one would consider thinking otherwise (all of this legal/illegal nonsense is pretty new historically)
I’m not trying to split hairs, but I like to spread reminders that people live where they live, and the idea you can live in a county illegally is inhuman
The original comics are older but the current movie, of we assume superman is 30 makes him born in 1995. When do you think the surveillance state started?
Your personal views don’t change the law. I too would like open borders worldwide but we’re not there and each country has sovereignty to make their own laws and decide who is a citizen and under what conditions. Bit that’s even further from the point.
Ugh…I hate every part of that
I picture Superman as crashing into Kansas in like the '30s, maybe with a bit of a slippery time scale. No way it was in the '90s… But I don’t know enough about Superman to argue the point, I just find the idea really unsettling