All the news on his speech seems to be about HS2 but I think that this is important too.

  • betwixthewires@lemmy.basedcount.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    7
    arrow-down
    48
    ·
    1 year ago

    What do you mean by “consequences”? You want to punish people for believing a man can’t be a woman, even if they don’t go around harassing transgender and calling them names and fucking with their lives?

    • GentlemanLoser@ttrpg.network
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      45
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      1 year ago

      Intentionally misgendering someone is a dick move and generally people don’t want to hang around dicks. So first consequence is you’ll have other dicks for friends. Except, they’re dicks, so probably not gonna be very good friends each other.

      I also hope you are self employed cuz intentionally misgendering people in the workplace is not a good look either. Better hope no one in earshot has a trans friend or family member.

      No one’s saying you can’t be Your Best Inner Bigoted Self. We’re just saying the rest of us think it’s ugly and weak minded.

      • betwixthewires@lemmy.basedcount.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        36
        ·
        1 year ago

        Alright, so you’re OK with leaving alone people who use pronouns to refer to biological sex, you don’t want to be their friend or whatever but you leave them alone, don’t harass them, don’t try to get them fired and if they get a job somewhere that doesn’t care then fine, leave them alone?

    • IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      28
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      I never said people should be punished for thinking that. If people aren’t harassing or bullying people they aren’t being assholes.

      Also consequences doesn’t just mean punishment. If someone is being an asshole by constantly misgendering a trans person on purpose and people don’t want to hang out with them anymore because of that behavior that’s a consequence but not a punishment.

      • betwixthewires@lemmy.basedcount.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        32
        ·
        1 year ago

        So you’re OK with that? Not personally associating with people that use pronouns to refer to biological sex, but let them be themselves and do their thing and associate with who they want?

          • betwixthewires@lemmy.basedcount.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            28
            ·
            1 year ago

            Well that’s good, I 100% agree with you. But judging by the votes I’m getting for asking this question, I don’t think most people that support the transgender movement do.

          • betwixthewires@lemmy.basedcount.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            27
            ·
            1 year ago

            Yeah, but it’s not without contention. Some people believe it should be illegal to use pronouns in reference to someone’s biological sex. I’m just asking people if they’re OK with it, if they like that, to distinguish from people who do that and people who harass and berate transgender people. When someone says “they just want to be left alone” I’m trying to get whether they view that distinction as valid or not.

            • Zombiepirate@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              21
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              You’re conflating a number of issues.

              Edit: This is from a US perspective despite the article.

              Should a teacher be required to call a child by their preferred pronoun? Of course; the child has no choice in the matter of attending school, and forcing a child to endure constant humiliation at the hands of their steward is an insane thing to require.

              Should it be illegal to misgender someone on the street? No, we have the freedom to speak our mind in this country. If one puts themselves out there as a bigot though, they need to be prepared for the social repercussions of that speech.

              Should it be illegal to misgender a coworker? Consider a situation where you start a new job. Your coworker starts calling you “cuck” over and over again. You tell him that you’re not a cuck, but he says that you look like a cuck, so that’s what he’s going to call you. You go to your boss, and tell them that your coworker is being disrespectful, but he says that he’s not going to get between the two of you about personal identity issues. There is a case for a lawsuit for creating a hostile work environment, and it’s a civil matter at that point.

              The most concerning question is: why is it so important to you to be an asshole to other people?

              • betwixthewires@lemmy.basedcount.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                22
                ·
                1 year ago

                I’m not am asshole to other people.

                The interesting thing about pronouns is that the only pronoun used to directly address someone is not gendered, it’s “you”. So it is not actually possible to directly misgender someone.

                The words “he” and “she” aren’t slurs. Comparison to the word “cuck” don’t make any sense. Should a job require someone to use preferred pronouns? Well I go back to what I was discussing about free association, if they want to sure, if they don’t that’s OK too, but going after a workplace without such a requirement takes things a bit farther than just wanting to be left alone.

                And as far as teachers, I actually don’t think kids should be forced to go to school, so that would really be a different issue. If they’re old enough to determine their gender they’re certainly old enough to educate themselves or determine if they even want an education.

                • Zombiepirate@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  19
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  I’m not am asshole to other people.

                  If you are intentionally misgendering people, then yes. Yes, you are. You’re actively doing something that somebody asked you not to. You’re making their identity about you. It’s ridiculously self-absorbed.

                  The interesting thing about pronouns is that the only pronoun used to directly address someone is not gendered, it’s “you”. So it is not actually possible to directly misgender someone.

                  Another thing you’re wrong about. “Them” is a pronoun. “He” and “she” are pronouns that directly address someone if you’re talking to a third party with the person in the room; this is really not that hard.

                  The words “he” and “she” aren’t slurs. Comparison to the word “cuck” don’t make any sense. Should a job require someone to use preferred pronouns? Well I go back to what I was discussing about free association, if they want to sure, if they don’t that’s OK too, but going after a workplace without such a requirement takes things a bit farther than just wanting to be left alone.

                  Pretend that the coworker was misgendering you as a cis person instead. The argument still stands. Are they creating a hostile work environment? We have laws about that.

                  Why is it important to protect the bigot’s livelihood but not that of the person being misgendered?

                  And as far as teachers, I actually don’t think kids should be forced to go to school, so that would really be a different issue. If they’re old enough to determine their gender they’re certainly old enough to educate themselves or determine if they even want an education.

                  Fortunately we still educate kids in this country, so I don’t understand the relevance here.

            • lolcatnip@reddthat.com
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              18
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              The only people making it illegal to use certain pronouns are conservatives. You’re making the worst kind of straw man argument.

    • Shiggles@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      You know that there have always been effeminate men and masculine women, right? They might not even be trans, they just look close to the other gender. You’d still be an asshole for calling them the wrong gender, why would trans people be any different?