Take the one thing Android has over Apple away. Why go Android then? Might as well go with the device that has close ties to the hardware.
Guess we are going back to the days when only nerds that knew how to flash better roms will be using Android.
Take the one thing Android has over Apple away. Why go Android then
They’ve passed the critical mass wherein they can dictate anything they want without losing any significant userbase. The only people that this is going to affect is a tiny minority of people who even know what sideloading is. If you don’t think so, you’re in a bubble.
These fuckers never wanted to be user centric opposite to apple, they wanted to be alongside apple in telling users what they can or cannot do. They’re worse because of the whole advertising monopoly but most people don’t even know what any of the above matters. They’ll continue on like everyday.
Guess we are going back to the days when only nerds that knew how to flash better roms will be using Android.
Google is closing those gates as well. Pixel 10 drivers aren’t in the new AOSP build. Graphene has been updated to the Android 16 core, but as Google tightens the leash, it will be more difficult. Google’s plan to combine ChromeOS and Android into a MegaBloat will further make it so AOSP is useless.
Every time Google releases a new app for the core OS, they stop supporting the open-source flavor of it, which is why apps like the AOSP messaging app can’t do RCS. Eventually all that will be left of AOSP is a mostly useless husk.
Google’s intended use case for AOSP going forward is for vendors to be able to test pre-release things, primarily in an emulator environment.
Couple that with things like Samsung’s Qualcomm phones can’t be bootloader unlocked, and less and less phones in general can be bootloader unlocked, it is going to be an uphill battle for alt OSes.
Hopefully, this will drive enough dev time towards getting a proper Linux-based mobile device in the works, but even that will be problematic as most modems/chips available for that kind of project are inferior, slow, do not support all the bands/modes of modern carrier networks, and even after all of that, the carrier can still reject to certify the device for the network.
It isn’t hopeless, but everyone is going to have to get creative and driven if we have any intention of retaining free and open mobile devices.
GrapheneOS said they are working with an unnamed OEM to make devices compatible with GOS. Hopefully they are good, because Pixels may indeed be a dead end.
If they do and it’s a good phone, I may literally move back to Android just for that after 3 years of daily driving iOS. Right now choice is between giving my money to Apple vs Google so I might as well go with the one that has tighter hardware-software integration.
Well said, and you’re right, it’s not hopeless. Most people don’t need the latest superphone, personally I want to carry around a good music device, that I can read books on, and preferably have maps. Many like cameras, but I like the idea of a devoted one. The communications (/surveillance) device is a separate thing and perhaps we should think seriously about breaking these things apart, hotspot that you turn on when needed for example. How about a nice general purpose pocketable linux gadget and a secure simple telecom to give it a connection?
They used to have pretty good pricing. The compact versions of the Z lineup especially. Of course, they also somehow managed to have the most fragile screens in the business at that time.
But that was also a wildly different time. You’d go to your phone company’s website and see Apple, Samsung, Sony, LG, HTC, ZTE, Huawei, Motorola and a few others. Now LG, HTC, ZTE, Huawei, Sony and Motorola aren’t even on the list anymore - even though some of those companies still make devices, some companies just won’t bother selling them anymore. It’s just Apple, Google, Samsung, Xiaomi and… I’m surprised that OnePlus even makes the list.
Now I can still get Asus, POCO or Honor from a 3rd party retailer which is fine, I don’t want to give Telia any more money anyway, but most people get their phone with a discount from their phone company on contract… So companies other than the “big 5” aren’t even being considered. Plus I don’t even know where to get a Sony phone. Even the company formerly known as Sony Center here sells iPhones, but not Sony phones (they do still sell a lot of other Sony things of course)
I won’t trust them to not screw me over for things outside of my control.
I was looking into Sony for my last phone, but one of my friends ended up getting one before I did and he hard pushed me away from it. He said it was a hassle for him to unlock it, and that they moreorless said that the act of unlocking the bootloader will void his warranty (which is not legal in the US) and that after 2 tries of unlocking and having it not unlock, he returned it and went to another company (I think it was oneplus?), he also wasn’t impressed with the performance vs price that he was getting out of it.
yeah, these flip phone people sound very dumb to me. you don’t like google so you’re just gonna hand over all your data and conversations by using unencrypted SMS and phone calls instead? 🤦♀️
Why not completely divorce your phone from your portable computing device?
Before smartphones, they were getting pretty small. You could probably make a phone that was just a voice activated earbud now. Then have a device that was everything but the “phone” bits. You wouldn’t have to accept the locked down aspects that the cell providers demand, you could have all the variety and functionality of your home computer or laptop.
Not enough space for an proper antenna and the battery requirements wouldn’t work plus the thermals the thing would kick off would burn your ear.
The transmission power requirements between Bluetooth and cellular is measured in magnitudes, 3-4 times the power.
The cellular modem and antenna could be fit into the charging case of earbuds but the battery life would still be terrible since most of the case is taken up by the space needed for the ear buds.
In the U.S you can’t buy any of these devices because the cell networks are privately owned and one of the unofficial conditions of you getting access is that you have to have government surveillance and soon censorship on your device, as well as locked bootloaders with signing and stuff. They are currently spending tons of money in Europe to get rid of freedom of thought over there as well. You guys might have 10 more years.
I have been trying to find a single open device to replace my android phone with for over a month now. Every single one of these devices are only sold with support for European cell networks. The radios inside American cells phones are controlled by parents and property standards so that you literally cannot buy a device that can access the network without one of their radios(which is a fully programmable tracking device almost hidden to the OS BTW) you cannot reproduce or even modify the radios due to this horrible law in the U.S called DMCA, which means if a device has any drm software on it at all, which is basically everything nowadays you can get sued by the company that made it by making any modifications to the device that they don’t approve of.
It’s not disinfo, I know the facts and I don’t deal in lies and disinfo. I research everything I say extensively and verify it myself.
Okay I think I mis-handled the threading. I thought you were replying to the comment about dumb phones and those are most definitely available in the United States.
You are looking for something that runs Sailfish but that OS is meant for the Euro market so its targeted at handsets meant for use there. The entire supported device list is a measly 16 handsets and all but one of those are made by Sony! It’s a crazily niche OS.
The radios inside American cells phones are controlled by parents and property standards…
Yes, I’m aware of that. It’s literally no different for European cell phones. The Jolla C2 is a rebadged Reeder S19 Pro Max S and whatever modem is buried in that thing is going to have precisely the same issues. Patents are global and at this point even the Chinese are following them, much less a small Turkish manufacturer like Reeder.
(which is a fully programmable tracking device almost hidden to the OS BTW)
They’re all like this. All of them. Even the ones in a handset running Sailfish.
you cannot reproduce or even modify the radios due to this horrible law in the U.S called DMCA
The DMCA has very little to do with Software Defined Radios…which is precisely what the modem chips in these handsets are. Frankly I don’t WANT people fucking with the SDR in their handsets. You can do it with lots of other SDRs (GMRS, Amateur, WiFi, etc) and people inevitably abuse the ability and fuck things ups.
The DMCA is a rotten law but isn’t anywhere close to the biggest problem when it comes to SDRs and Phone Handsets.
Literally a government backed monopoly funded with trillions of take payer dollars at this point. When I run for president one day, besides things like completely banning 100% private political campaigns and proganda, one of the first things im going to do is force the FCC to create a wide pocket of bandwidth for a open source and private mesh networks with a range of around 20-50 miles between devices with fallback modes of hundreds of miles, and maybe another fall back mode for thousands if antenna size allows for this inside cell phones. That way we can control our own cell phones and have a citizen licensed cell network.
No you can’t use graphene is because almost no device supports it anymore. Very few devices have an unlocked bootloader, and commands don’t work on devices that don’t have a snapdragon chip set.
Also using airplane mode completly defeats the purpose of having a cell phone.
They are going to get rid of those too, at least ones without gps and stuff. The age of cell phones is just over until we can get back control of our state from the superpacs and internationalist psychos who want to control everyone.
They are already gone. About the only dumbphones left either run a stripped down version of Android, or pseudo-custom OSes that still have some basic telemetry, and all have GPS/etc for “e911” requirements.
you create a google account that is only used inside the sanboxed container and prevent your data from being mined and sent to google. you can turn off its internet access at any time in the permissions which isn’t possible on stock Android
Yes, although generally they have less band support than “smart” phones, and with smaller batteries the hotspot tends to kill the phone pretty fast. It might end up being a case of using a basic smartphone with no software installed and as much stuff disabled as possible as a tether source.
this is honestly my ideology at the moment… like freedom was the main reason I’m on android. Price wise it’s already getting close, and most flagships have removed microSD card support by now. I’m seriously debating my next phone being an iphone just because most of my family uses them, and my convenience being on android is being actively removed anyway.
I can’t even imagine that transfer, I’ve been android my entire life but, every time I talk to my family I list what I want in a phone, and every time I talk to them it seems apple has marked another issue off the list with an update.
I went Apple for a bit around iphone 6. then back to Android. But Apple has solved most of my OS complaints since and I’m still Android mainly because it’s open. I already know Google is making bank off my info, if they do this bullshit, I’ll go Apple until Linux is baked.
TBF, I could also see myself with a mobile access point and a small linux tablet but I don’t see much in that realm either. .
Guess we are going back to the days when only nerds that knew how to flash better roms will be using Android.
Will we even have that? IIRC, Google’s changing the open source model for Android so its going to be a lot harder from ROM devs to keep up to date with security patches, and then more importantly, have access to device drivers
Maybe there’s a silverlining of the custom rom scene interest growing again like when Android first came out among enthusiasts. Lot over the years just stopped flashing roms, since phones got “good enough” that it stopped being worth the hassle.
But, losing easy sideloading without need for adb is a pretty big deal for enthusiasts that more might start looking into custom roms again.
There’s still Chinese phones which do their own thing. Either way worst case scenario there’s still old phones that can be picked up and used for several more years.
Even old phones like the Pixel 1 is still getting updates from LineageOS. So there’s lot of old phones that’s released since then that can be used for custom roms without having to get the latest and greatest.
being able to lock your bootloader should be a bare minimum requirement. what’s the point of pushing security updates if all that can be bypassed by tampering with the firmware?
OEMs are just too lazy to spend the extra bucks on the cryptography chips and they don’t let you relock the bootloader because they are conservative in their approach to security
It’s nearly impossible to even flash a rom these days, they made sure to cover that first. They want to make sure you are only allowed to watch or read what they approve of. That’s what it’s all about. Next time they get a democratic in, they won’t even give trans people their rights back, they are just going to go after gun rights hard. Mark my words.
Hard if you don’t have a snapdragon device. Mediatek processors have all kinds of stupid bullshit that makes it really hard to flash a file without their key. We really need to start sharing key generators for things again, especially for the bootloaders for our computers we buy.
I was wishy washy on whether my next phone would be android or iOS for years, but with this change my decision got a lot easier. Was fun while it lasted, Android - but if you’re going to become a walled garden I’d rather be in the better one.
Yeah, this seems crazy to me. This is a big differentiator. I still hate apple’s ui and several other things but now I can see myself being convinced to get an iPhone. There was zero chance before this decision. If apple ever allows real third party launchers and browsers that aren’t just safari skins (or if android ever disallows launchers and makes all browsers chrome skins), I’d be pretty close to 50-50.
Ngl. Emulators now being on the app store is huge. Between that and easy SSH access to actually private boxes, I’m on the cusp of going back to iOS on my main phone.
Take the one thing Android has over Apple away. Why go Android then? Might as well go with the device that has close ties to the hardware. Guess we are going back to the days when only nerds that knew how to flash better roms will be using Android.
They’ve passed the critical mass wherein they can dictate anything they want without losing any significant userbase. The only people that this is going to affect is a tiny minority of people who even know what sideloading is. If you don’t think so, you’re in a bubble.
These fuckers never wanted to be user centric opposite to apple, they wanted to be alongside apple in telling users what they can or cannot do. They’re worse because of the whole advertising monopoly but most people don’t even know what any of the above matters. They’ll continue on like everyday.
Google is closing those gates as well. Pixel 10 drivers aren’t in the new AOSP build. Graphene has been updated to the Android 16 core, but as Google tightens the leash, it will be more difficult. Google’s plan to combine ChromeOS and Android into a MegaBloat will further make it so AOSP is useless.
Every time Google releases a new app for the core OS, they stop supporting the open-source flavor of it, which is why apps like the AOSP messaging app can’t do RCS. Eventually all that will be left of AOSP is a mostly useless husk.
Google’s intended use case for AOSP going forward is for vendors to be able to test pre-release things, primarily in an emulator environment.
Couple that with things like Samsung’s Qualcomm phones can’t be bootloader unlocked, and less and less phones in general can be bootloader unlocked, it is going to be an uphill battle for alt OSes.
Hopefully, this will drive enough dev time towards getting a proper Linux-based mobile device in the works, but even that will be problematic as most modems/chips available for that kind of project are inferior, slow, do not support all the bands/modes of modern carrier networks, and even after all of that, the carrier can still reject to certify the device for the network.
It isn’t hopeless, but everyone is going to have to get creative and driven if we have any intention of retaining free and open mobile devices.
GrapheneOS said they are working with an unnamed OEM to make devices compatible with GOS. Hopefully they are good, because Pixels may indeed be a dead end.
If they do and it’s a good phone, I may literally move back to Android just for that after 3 years of daily driving iOS. Right now choice is between giving my money to Apple vs Google so I might as well go with the one that has tighter hardware-software integration.
Well said, and you’re right, it’s not hopeless. Most people don’t need the latest superphone, personally I want to carry around a good music device, that I can read books on, and preferably have maps. Many like cameras, but I like the idea of a devoted one. The communications (/surveillance) device is a separate thing and perhaps we should think seriously about breaking these things apart, hotspot that you turn on when needed for example. How about a nice general purpose pocketable linux gadget and a secure simple telecom to give it a connection?
https://opendevices.ix5.org/
There is still this. SONY’s phones are expensive, unfortunately.
They used to have pretty good pricing. The compact versions of the Z lineup especially. Of course, they also somehow managed to have the most fragile screens in the business at that time.
But that was also a wildly different time. You’d go to your phone company’s website and see Apple, Samsung, Sony, LG, HTC, ZTE, Huawei, Motorola and a few others. Now LG, HTC, ZTE, Huawei, Sony and Motorola aren’t even on the list anymore - even though some of those companies still make devices, some companies just won’t bother selling them anymore. It’s just Apple, Google, Samsung, Xiaomi and… I’m surprised that OnePlus even makes the list.
Now I can still get Asus, POCO or Honor from a 3rd party retailer which is fine, I don’t want to give Telia any more money anyway, but most people get their phone with a discount from their phone company on contract… So companies other than the “big 5” aren’t even being considered. Plus I don’t even know where to get a Sony phone. Even the company formerly known as Sony Center here sells iPhones, but not Sony phones (they do still sell a lot of other Sony things of course)
Yeah, I’ll never buy another Sony phone or Sony anything if I can help.
I bought one and used it to miracast to various devices.
With an update, they removed miracast capability on the phone. The same way they removed Linux from the PS3.
Will never trust them or buy Sony anything again.
I won’t trust them to not screw me over for things outside of my control.
I was looking into Sony for my last phone, but one of my friends ended up getting one before I did and he hard pushed me away from it. He said it was a hassle for him to unlock it, and that they moreorless said that the act of unlocking the bootloader will void his warranty (which is not legal in the US) and that after 2 tries of unlocking and having it not unlock, he returned it and went to another company (I think it was oneplus?), he also wasn’t impressed with the performance vs price that he was getting out of it.
Many are going even further. Both my friend and I are planning to get dumb flip phones next. Forget also this smartphone always online stuff
no option for secure messaging on a flip phone
yeah, these flip phone people sound very dumb to me. you don’t like google so you’re just gonna hand over all your data and conversations by using unencrypted SMS and phone calls instead? 🤦♀️
Reject Phones
Return to Ham Radios and Morse code, with One Time Pad layered on top of it for encryption
You would be surprised. Most modern “dumb phones” run KaiOS which has an App Store.
Modern flip phones can often tether.
the horror
I mean, yeah.
Why would I carry one device that does everything and one device that does less and isn’t really more private, doesn’t make much sense.
Because Android is ran by a capitalist corporation that spies on you 24/7 and seeks to restrict and control their platform.
If I could make it convenient, I’d carry a flip phone and a laptop. I trust both far more than Google, and slightly more than GrapheneOS.
Downvote all you like. I’m not telling any of you to do anything. You want security? Toss your phone out of a moving car and get a notebook.
The notebook has to be running Linux though. Win11 also tattles on you.
What I mean is that flipphones, at least where I am, run on kaiOS, kaiOS is worse than degoogled android for privacy
That’s not a bad idea.
Why not completely divorce your phone from your portable computing device?
Before smartphones, they were getting pretty small. You could probably make a phone that was just a voice activated earbud now. Then have a device that was everything but the “phone” bits. You wouldn’t have to accept the locked down aspects that the cell providers demand, you could have all the variety and functionality of your home computer or laptop.
Yeah. That’s too small.
Not enough space for an proper antenna and the battery requirements wouldn’t work plus the thermals the thing would kick off would burn your ear.
The transmission power requirements between Bluetooth and cellular is measured in magnitudes, 3-4 times the power.
The cellular modem and antenna could be fit into the charging case of earbuds but the battery life would still be terrible since most of the case is taken up by the space needed for the ear buds.
I’m looking forward for a Sailfish OS device tbh
In the U.S you can’t buy any of these devices because the cell networks are privately owned and one of the unofficial conditions of you getting access is that you have to have government surveillance and soon censorship on your device, as well as locked bootloaders with signing and stuff. They are currently spending tons of money in Europe to get rid of freedom of thought over there as well. You guys might have 10 more years.
No. My Father in Law has one and they’re available from Verizon, AT&T, and others.
Where are you getting this disinformation from?
I have been trying to find a single open device to replace my android phone with for over a month now. Every single one of these devices are only sold with support for European cell networks. The radios inside American cells phones are controlled by parents and property standards so that you literally cannot buy a device that can access the network without one of their radios(which is a fully programmable tracking device almost hidden to the OS BTW) you cannot reproduce or even modify the radios due to this horrible law in the U.S called DMCA, which means if a device has any drm software on it at all, which is basically everything nowadays you can get sued by the company that made it by making any modifications to the device that they don’t approve of.
It’s not disinfo, I know the facts and I don’t deal in lies and disinfo. I research everything I say extensively and verify it myself.
Okay I think I mis-handled the threading. I thought you were replying to the comment about dumb phones and those are most definitely available in the United States.
You are looking for something that runs Sailfish but that OS is meant for the Euro market so its targeted at handsets meant for use there. The entire supported device list is a measly 16 handsets and all but one of those are made by Sony! It’s a crazily niche OS.
Yes, I’m aware of that. It’s literally no different for European cell phones. The Jolla C2 is a rebadged Reeder S19 Pro Max S and whatever modem is buried in that thing is going to have precisely the same issues. Patents are global and at this point even the Chinese are following them, much less a small Turkish manufacturer like Reeder.
They’re all like this. All of them. Even the ones in a handset running Sailfish.
The DMCA has very little to do with Software Defined Radios…which is precisely what the modem chips in these handsets are. Frankly I don’t WANT people fucking with the SDR in their handsets. You can do it with lots of other SDRs (GMRS, Amateur, WiFi, etc) and people inevitably abuse the ability and fuck things ups.
The DMCA is a rotten law but isn’t anywhere close to the biggest problem when it comes to SDRs and Phone Handsets.
Literally a government backed monopoly funded with trillions of take payer dollars at this point. When I run for president one day, besides things like completely banning 100% private political campaigns and proganda, one of the first things im going to do is force the FCC to create a wide pocket of bandwidth for a open source and private mesh networks with a range of around 20-50 miles between devices with fallback modes of hundreds of miles, and maybe another fall back mode for thousands if antenna size allows for this inside cell phones. That way we can control our own cell phones and have a citizen licensed cell network.
This needs to be talked about more. Please don’t stop your activism.
nobody’s forcing you to use those radios. you can use a GrapheneOS phone in airplane mode
No you can’t use graphene is because almost no device supports it anymore. Very few devices have an unlocked bootloader, and commands don’t work on devices that don’t have a snapdragon chip set.
Also using airplane mode completly defeats the purpose of having a cell phone.
if you can’t afford to buy a used pixel then that’s valid but you don’t have to dress it up in ideology to make it sound more valid
even if the radios were open sourced, the cell network would still be inherently unsafe due to how it works
They are going to get rid of those too, at least ones without gps and stuff. The age of cell phones is just over until we can get back control of our state from the superpacs and internationalist psychos who want to control everyone.
They are already gone. About the only dumbphones left either run a stripped down version of Android, or pseudo-custom OSes that still have some basic telemetry, and all have GPS/etc for “e911” requirements.
I like the idea, but there’s a lot of things that I truly want on my phone. Like Google Maps and the Garmin app for my watch.
you can use sandboxed google maps on GrapheneOS
I don’t even know what that means, honestly.
you create a google account that is only used inside the sanboxed container and prevent your data from being mined and sent to google. you can turn off its internet access at any time in the permissions which isn’t possible on stock Android
Oh ok. Cool thanks
Can dumb flip phones provide Internet hotspots?
Yes, although generally they have less band support than “smart” phones, and with smaller batteries the hotspot tends to kill the phone pretty fast. It might end up being a case of using a basic smartphone with no software installed and as much stuff disabled as possible as a tether source.
this is honestly my ideology at the moment… like freedom was the main reason I’m on android. Price wise it’s already getting close, and most flagships have removed microSD card support by now. I’m seriously debating my next phone being an iphone just because most of my family uses them, and my convenience being on android is being actively removed anyway.
I can’t even imagine that transfer, I’ve been android my entire life but, every time I talk to my family I list what I want in a phone, and every time I talk to them it seems apple has marked another issue off the list with an update.
Like what? You can’t even Bluetooth a file on an iPhone over to anything.
I went Apple for a bit around iphone 6. then back to Android. But Apple has solved most of my OS complaints since and I’m still Android mainly because it’s open. I already know Google is making bank off my info, if they do this bullshit, I’ll go Apple until Linux is baked.
TBF, I could also see myself with a mobile access point and a small linux tablet but I don’t see much in that realm either. .
Same here. I hope we’re not the only ones to switch. I hope it affects their bottom line even in a microscopic way. eheh
Will we even have that? IIRC, Google’s changing the open source model for Android so its going to be a lot harder from ROM devs to keep up to date with security patches, and then more importantly, have access to device drivers
Maybe there’s a silverlining of the custom rom scene interest growing again like when Android first came out among enthusiasts. Lot over the years just stopped flashing roms, since phones got “good enough” that it stopped being worth the hassle.
But, losing easy sideloading without need for adb is a pretty big deal for enthusiasts that more might start looking into custom roms again.
And that’s all assuming the few OEMs that still have unlocked bootloaders will continue to do so.
It wouldn’t surprise me if Google starts requiring locked bootloaders in some future version of Android in the name of “security”.
There’s still Chinese phones which do their own thing. Either way worst case scenario there’s still old phones that can be picked up and used for several more years.
Even old phones like the Pixel 1 is still getting updates from LineageOS. So there’s lot of old phones that’s released since then that can be used for custom roms without having to get the latest and greatest.
you can use adb without unlocking bootloader
Yes, that’s always been the case. And?
being able to lock your bootloader should be a bare minimum requirement. what’s the point of pushing security updates if all that can be bypassed by tampering with the firmware?
OEMs are just too lazy to spend the extra bucks on the cryptography chips and they don’t let you relock the bootloader because they are conservative in their approach to security
It’s nearly impossible to even flash a rom these days, they made sure to cover that first. They want to make sure you are only allowed to watch or read what they approve of. That’s what it’s all about. Next time they get a democratic in, they won’t even give trans people their rights back, they are just going to go after gun rights hard. Mark my words.
I personally found it very easy to install Graphene and get it up and running.
Hard if you don’t have a snapdragon device. Mediatek processors have all kinds of stupid bullshit that makes it really hard to flash a file without their key. We really need to start sharing key generators for things again, especially for the bootloaders for our computers we buy.
I was wishy washy on whether my next phone would be android or iOS for years, but with this change my decision got a lot easier. Was fun while it lasted, Android - but if you’re going to become a walled garden I’d rather be in the better one.
Wait a little bit longer and get a Linux phone
Purism - Librem 5 running PureOS (or whatever Linux distro you want)
Yeah, this seems crazy to me. This is a big differentiator. I still hate apple’s ui and several other things but now I can see myself being convinced to get an iPhone. There was zero chance before this decision. If apple ever allows real third party launchers and browsers that aren’t just safari skins (or if android ever disallows launchers and makes all browsers chrome skins), I’d be pretty close to 50-50.
Ngl. Emulators now being on the app store is huge. Between that and easy SSH access to actually private boxes, I’m on the cusp of going back to iOS on my main phone.