OR they could stop bombing hospitals. Absolutely weird idea I know but just a thought.
It’s a difficult situation considering some of the hospitals also house Hamas
It’s not. Hamas being there doesn’t magically make this okay, you fucking homonculus
Looks like we found the cheat code in war – just make everything hospitals or medical related and no one can touch them!
If Hamas gives a single fuck about these innocent people, abandon their outpost below the hospital.
Hamas doesn’t care… They are terrorists. It is incumbent upon the “good guys” to be better than the terrorists. We really don’t want to go back to the time when war was a race to the bottom of the atrocity ladder.
Yup. Hamas is a shit organization who only the Palestinian people to further their wealth and trash ideology. Gaza hasnt had an election since Hamas barely came to power. Their leaders live a life of luxury while their people suffer. That said, netanyahu has been a fucking asshole himself – he caused this attack as much as Hamas.
However, this is an ongoing war that was started by two assholes where the only suffering happens to innocent people. Civilians die in war, while they are not primary targets (except by terrorists), they will be caught in the crossfire. If a major leadership cell is at a hospital – the hospital is a target and the leadership will be taken out, even in the laws of war – you CAN target hospitals. If a hospital is “untouchable” then the enemy will use it. War is horrible, but when you are in it – you fight.
Its best to focus on the failed policies of the USA, Isreal and the authoritarian, terrorist Hamas government that led to this mess in the first place and find some path for peace to ultimately stop all this bloodshed.
How this can be done? No idea, but whatever has been done isnt working.
“Its best to focus on the failed policies of the USA, Isreal and the authoritarian, terrorist Hamas government that led to this mess in the first place and find some path for peace to ultimately stop all this bloodshed.”
The policy that led to Hamas was the apartheid system imposed on Palestinians by Israelis, not to mention the continued theft of land over the last 70 years. Nothing changes without that system being dismantled.
You dumb. Correct, they haven’t had an election within the lifetime of over half the population of Gaza so they aren’t duly elected and there’s little evidence to support Palestinian support of Hamas specifically. Netanyahu had been caught paying hamas cash on multiple occasions, didn’t must cause it he paid for it.
You cannot disproportionately attack a hospital, there are 5000 people known to be in that hospital and a claimed sub 500 Garrison below that they refuse to get into his or why they know about. You can’t kill 5000 to kill 500 you don’t actually even have proof exist.
You seem to gloss over the literal terrorist roots of the IDF, lehi, irgun, haganah age others were all terrorist organizations involved in self claimed acts of assassination, civilian bombing and religious purge of secular leadership.
No shit? Bombing civilian industry and controlling the population of an open air concentration camp isn’t popular? Whoever would have guessed that?
I’ve been in a few war zones… I know the rules. The point isn’t whether it’s legal… Israel has the resources to clear these places on foot. Yes, it sucks and yes, it will result in higher IDF casualties. Just like clearing Falluja building by building led to higher coalition losses there. Soldiers dying is better than civilians dying…especially when you’re fighting terrorists. Every dead civilian has family, friends, lovers, etc, that will become more sympathetic to the terrorists and make killing the ideology that much harder.
Running a military operation out of a hospital makes it a valid target. Hamas is using civilians as human shields.
Are you suggesting it is okay to kill civilians being used as human shields?
Are you suggesting that human shields have more value than the people who is being mortally attacked from behind the shields?
No. That’s exactly the point, you dipshit. They have AS MUCH value. Equal to.
Value is for spreadsheets.
Humans have worth. And all humans have equal worth. All things actually.
I don’t agree with that nice sounding platitude. Terrorists and pedophiles lives don’t have the same worth as a nobel price winner to society.
I would suggest they are certainly more valuable than the incompetent marksmen who would rather make excuses than aim their fucking guns
Genocide apologist try not to justify bombing hospitals challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
Running a military operation out of a hospital makes it a valid target.
Based on who though
Just like bank robbers do, and you wouldn’t be ok with the police entering with flamethrowers
So if a bank robber took a cashier as a hostage, you’d suggest to just shoot the hostage, to get to the bank robber?
Comparing actions being taken in a war being fought over an area larger than that of Delaware to that of a bank robbery is too reductionist to give any sort of meaningful response to.
I was mainly focusing on the validity of taking out hostages in order to get to the bad guys.
War fucking sucks, and sometimes the only way to save 10,000 lives is to end 100. Every country has limited resources to deal with hostage situations in active warzones.
Let’s tell a story…
Imagine for a moment, if you will, the United States in the present day. Imagine a bill reaches the US House of Representatives called “America the nation state of white people”. In its basic principles it states “the right to exercise National self-determination in the United States is unique to white people”. Further down a clause for White Settlement “the state views the development of White Settlement as a national value and will act to encourage and promote its establishment and consolidation”.
Outraged a coalition led by the Congressional Black Caucus initiates a challenge to the bill and proposes a bill of their own where it calls the United States “a country for all its citizens” but the speaker of the house unilaterally disqualifies the bill before it’s allowed to even be debated.
The house General counsel explains in a statement the bill includes several articles that are meant to “alter the character of the United States from the nation state of white people to a state in which there is equal status from the point of view of nationality for whites and people of color” the bill is dead.
“America the nation state of white people” passes through both chambers of Congress unchallenged it’s then signed into law.
US President Joe Biden would invoke the law in a tweet a year later saying “America is not a state of all its citizens according to the nation state law we passed America is the nation state of white people and not anyone else” As one Rights group put it “there is no Democratic constitution in the world that designates the Constitutional identity of the state on racial grounds as serving one ethnic group”. There is now this disconcerting scenario, it is anything but imaginary.
It’s completely real and happened just a few years ago to little coverage and little condemnation in Israel.
That is who you are defending, like a golem set to task by its master, thoughtless and without morals.
At some point you guys need to take a step back, and realize that you’re arguing for bombing hospitals full of children.
cool. can you tell Hamas to stop using hospitals for war?
Don’t pretend that you have empathy for anyone involved in this conflict when you’re, again, advocating for bombing fucking kids.
When there’s a school shooting happening you don’t just flatten the school.
I have as much empathy as you do.
Seems unlikely given… All of that^^^
I’ll ask again… maybe you’ll answer (nobody else I’ve asked has). It seems you support Israel, so why don’t you think they should be held to a higher standard than a literal terrorist organization?
I don’t support Israel.
So you’re just being a contrarian/troll then? Seemed like a pretty emotional defense of their actions for someone who doesn’t support them. Guess that’s the internet for you.
Says Israel with no evidence. Every single international aid NGO active in the area denies it.
In 2015, Amnesty International claimed that hospitals are used as Hamas bases.
They have also already supplied evidence of some hospitals being used by Hamas to fire at the IDF. 1 2 3
If you don’t trust Israel, then here’s the EU telling Hamas to stop using hospitals as shields
One video of them shooting at a hospital, one video of tanks in alleys, and one video of a single man in a street with an RPG.
This is not evidence of anything. It’s as much evidence of hospitals being command centers as a picture of an RV was evidence for mobile chemical weapons labs in Iraq.
You already showed this to me.
Probably shouldn’t use paywalled sources to prove your point bud, especially ones that don’t seem to be in amnesty.org (the official website, not an wapo editorial.)
Those all seem to be attacks of opportunity not thought out, well supplied hit and runs like you would expect for “thousands of miles of tunnels” or a “sizable underground garrison”. You’d expect combat closer to Vietnamese rat nest attacks of Israel were at all correct.
Ed: you last source doesn’t even say it’s happening, it says they condemn it, essentially “if your doing it, stop doing it”.
deleted by creator
I condemn your idiocy.
Neat, love how you think that works.
You can use a paywall bypass, I use 12ft.io, but here’s the Amnesty article anyway.
They do say it’s happening. What are you on about?
The EU condemns the use of hospitals and civilians as human shields by Hamas.
Your link goes to a page about Palestinians being tortured.
I haven’t seen anything but condemnation because no one has actual evidence it’s happening, Israel who are the most adamant that it’s happening won’t show proof.
That article also condemns using hospitals, it didn’t however say it is happening. They are couching statements because Israel says it is happening and the concept is at the very least plausible and condemnation appeases Israeli allies.
You haven’t provided proof, you’ve provided statements of condemnation, that’s different. I can condemn the use of the trashcan at the end of the alley as a toilet, that doesn’t actually mean anyone’s been shitting in the trashcan just that I think if it happened it would be abhorrent.
Notably absent any actual evidence and it’s not like the US would lie to exert influence and justify international conflict.
I remember we stormed that one country because they had “weapons of mass destruction” and 20 years later we found so goddamn many… No wait we found none and were proven to have known there weren’t ever any.
To add to that, the US confirms it as well
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/politics/al-shifa-hospital-us-intelligence/index.html
Ironically this will probably be down voted as well since this sub is infested with Russian trolls
CNN printed an anonymous source without corroboration. The last time we swallowed bullshit that hard we invaded Iraq.
I never said they didn’t use tunnels. I said the only evidence for the hospitals being used is “Israel Says”. You can’t just throw random articles as “sources”. They need to actually back up your point and credibly. A tunnel in visual range of a hospital is not it. A blog with unsubstantiated claims is not it. A major news article that doesn’t say anything about hospitals, is not it.
And please stop trying to reply to me in two places with the same thing.
To add to what the other poster said, the US confirms it as well as Europe
https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/13/politics/al-shifa-hospital-us-intelligence/index.html
CNN has not seen the intelligence cited by the US official.
Hey the last time I heard that I got sent to look for mobile chemical weapons labs in Iraq with a few thousand buddies.
So yeah until they show us the evidence I’m not going believe bombing children in hospitals is at all justified.
That’s fair. Here’s more although I have a feeling you will throw this away too
They promised signs of hostages, a command center, and an arms room. They showed a toilet, a bed, and some baby supplies.
Please tell me you’re not this gullible? There’s a reason you found that on Twitter and the Washington Examiner.
Sure bro, I have more sources. Just tell me which site or source I should actually use so you don’t call me a mindless idiot and downvote me. Challenge accepted
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed
didnt they also offer people to leave and then bombed the route they were told to take?
Russia did this to Ukrainian kids also.
Hit the refugees directly and ambulance evacuation convoys.
Are you referring to the video of the car en route to Egypt blowing up? If so, that wasn’t Israel. The only explosives in range would be missiles or artillery, which are much larger than the blast captured.
The public currently doesn’t know what caused the explosion. Some say it was fuel igniting, others say there was an IED either on the road or inside the car.
Israel bombed refugee camps, targeted ambulance, and killed press personnel so yeah
Do you have proof of this?
The refugee camp bombing was widely reported and Israel publicly said it was them. Israel said the dozens of civilians killed were worth it to kill a Hamas commander.
Israel also publicly acknowledged they bombed an ambulance convoy, they claim the ambulances were used to transport Hamas militia.
You can choose to believe or disbelieve them on their motivations (I am very skeptical, personally), but these aren’t unsubstantiated claims. These are publicly acknowledged strikes.
And with that many bombs flying around, so many buildings levelled, of course there’s going to be journalists around the place getting hit.
Do you have any source better than the Guardian? They’re not exactly reputable with ongoing conflicts.
Israel also publicly acknowledged they bombed an ambulance convoy, they claim the ambulances were used to transport Hamas militia.
The source is hamas themselves–Not very reputable, as reputable as the IDF saying they didn’t do it.
According to the IDF, militias inside of Gaza are indeed using Ambulances and medical gear to disguise themselves. However, as previously mentioned–not very impartial.
So instead, here’s footage showing a medic running to a downed militant, just to take the rifle to another militant while leaving the downed militant. Both militants are in civilian clothing.
While disputed, in 2014, Amnesty International claims that the hospital is being used as a Hamas base. It’s worth noting that the Hospital itself was originally a military barracks.
Both parties killed innocent civilians. And both parties wants this war to keep going.
By both I mean Hamas and Israel.
Iran said yesterday that they’ll keep a front with Israel. And Israel have no intention to stop the violence until they occupy Gaza and West Bank.
That is one of my sources, yes.
Ok, great, we’ve gone from “Where’s the evidence?” to “Israel is justified doing those things”.
I don’t think anybody outside the Hamas command structure or the IDF command structure can conclusively and unequivocally claim they know whether these strikes were or were not justified, it all comes down to which sources you believe.
I’m glad we’ve made progress though and you acknowledge that these things happened.
You’re mistaken if you think that’s justification–No, it’s an explanation.
What? Do you want me to post a disclaimer that Israel is evil every post or something? Hope you do the same~
Jesus Christ look around it’s been everywhere
Christ doesn’t come into the picture there.
I see a lot of propaganda.
Clearly
yes, thanks to social media the entire world can see it now. that’s why they were cutting off internet service - because the favorable media isn’t the only game in town anymore to tell everyone “poor israel” while ignoring Israels atrocities.
what do you mean now? it’s been documented for decades my dude
right, and you had to look for it. the mainstream media wasn’t interested in showing that side of things. it’s always “israel is under attack”
That didn’t happen. And if it did, it wasn’t that bad. And if it was, that’s not a big deal. **** And if it is, that’s not my fault. And if it was, I didn’t mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.If so, that wasn’t Israel.
The public currently doesn’t know what caused the explosion.
??
It helps to read between the quotes.
The only explosives in range would be missiles or artillery, which are much larger than the blast captured.
Would love to read on that source tq
Here are some destructive payloads of missiles and artillery
Unfortunately, I can’t find the original source material, however I can link you to a video from a Rumble podcast showcasing the explosion I’m referencing. However, I did find this article, which contains much more gratuitous content, but is still on the topic of attacking refugees–The article notes that experts are unable to conclude what kind of blast it was.
Just trust me bro the explosion was too small so it couldn’t have been an IDF attack
if i was the IDF and I wanted to kill civilians without any witnesses, I’d use my largest and most destructive bomb to really make sure no one captures it on film.
but that’s if I was evil.
I remember the BBC one, it’s pretty much inconclusive on who and what done it, and there’s no more news on this particular case iirc.
I trust Israel to take care of those babies as well as I take care of a turd in my toilet.
Rando on Lemmy: “Israel probably mistreats Palestinian babies in hospitals”
Actual Palestinian: “Everyone here in Gaza talks about how Israeli doctors are the most professional in the world and that they can be trusted completely,”
Click the link, it’s an article about the 3000th Palestinian child to receive free lifesaving heart surgery. The quote is from his mom.
I wasn’t referring to the doctors.
Israel’s been shitting on Palestinians for a long time, but now Hamas decided to be the shitty ones.
The children did nothing wrong, and I have no reason to believe that doctors will do anything less than their best for these kids, but the doctors aren’t the ones with bombs.
I wonder how many Palestinians would trust the Israeli government with the health and safety of their babies. The number can’t be very high.
It literally happens all the time.
Israel offers to evacuate dispose of babies from crippled Gaza hospital
-Updated headline for accuracy
Yeah, wonder how long till they find Hamas supposedly hiding under thier blankets and kill all the babies in self defense.
They going to evacuate the babies to Siberia like Pootie did?
This feels a bit like Russia gallantly “offering” to “adopt” and “care for” Ukrainian children whose families are unfortunately, inadvertently facing some difficulties currently (e.g. death)…
There is a huge need for Israel to actually prove this shit. I’ve seen only two pieces of evidence that they aren’t just collectively wilding out and killing everyone in Gaza. One piece was a brand new version of Mein Kampf that they swear came from a “child’s living room” whatever the fuck that means. And the other one was blurry images of a Hamas terrorist that might have been beside a hospital.
Israel is in the top 5 of military powers and they’re supposedly fighting terrorists that they’ve fought for decades who have essentially no modern military capability besides on the ground street fighting. If they have intelligence that Hamas is using hospitals, refugee camps, ambulances, the routes Israel said civilians can use for escape, etc, it seems like there would be no risk in releasing that.
It’s put up or shut time. Because all we’re seeing is a bunch of evidence of genocide and war crimes. So show us the evidence or just go full mask off (rather than the 80% mask off that they seem to be doing so far) and just admit that Israel is trying to turn Gaza into a parking lot with all that means for civilians.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
GAZA/JERUSALEM, Nov 12 (Reuters) - Israel’s military said it was ready to evacuate babies from Gaza’s largest hospital on Sunday, where Palestinian officials said two newborns died and dozens more were at risk after fuel ran out amid intense fighting in the area.
Israel’s three major TV news channels, without citing named sources, said there was some progress toward a deal to free hostages held by Hamas in Gaza.
Israel has said doctors, patients and thousands of evacuees who have taken refuge at hospitals in northern Gaza must leave so it can tackle Hamas gunmen who it says have placed command centres under and around them.
Israeli Agriculture Minister Avi Dichter called the evacuations “Gaza’s Nakba” - a reference to mass dispossessions of Palestinians after Israel was founded in 1948.
Israel said earlier it had killed what it called a Hamas “terrorist” who it said had prevented the evacuation of another hospital in the north, which Palestinian officials have said is out of service and surrounded by tanks.
Meeting in Saudi Arabia, Muslim and Arab countries called for an immediate end to military operations in Gaza, rejecting Israel’s justification of self-defence.
The original article contains 841 words, the summary contains 191 words. Saved 77%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
lol israel just wants to take these babies away from their families to have them be raised as israelis. Classic genocidal behaviour.
