Hey all! Yesterday, I’ve made following post: How to choose your first distro - A guide for beginners (flowchart + text post) and need some input and critique from you.

One thing I got asked a hell lot is why I didn’t recommend Debian (and by some extend, Ubuntu) all that much.
While I included Debian in the list too, I had my reasons to recommend Mint, Zorin, and some other Debian-/ Ubuntu based distros above the OG Debian.

Ubuntu

My decision to exclude Ubuntu didn’t meet that much of a big resistance, probably because said decision wasn’t as controverse.

Reasons, copied from the post:

It used to be good and paved the way of today’s Linux desktop world, but nowadays, the Corporation behind it, Canonical, decided to shit on its user base.

  • Once, they decided to make advertisements for Amazon a few years ago, which they’ve reverted
  • They now make ads in the terminal for “Ubuntu Pro”
  • And, mostly, they force their own and highly controversial package format (Snaps) onto users. You almost can’t get around them, even if you actively decide for it. While Snaps became better in the last years, they still bring a lot of trouble. Just, for example, think of Valve when they officially recommended everyone to not use the fricking Snap package because it’s broken all the time? Good luck doing that with Ubuntu, when they shove Snaps down everyones’ throat, without even notifying the user. While we more experienced users just change the package format, newcomers aren’t aware of that and blame a malfunctioning app to Linux, not the Snap.

I just don’t see any reasons to recommend Ubuntu over something like Mint or even Debian. Both are pretty much the same (same command compatibility with apt, documentation also applies to them, etc.), but just better in any aspect.

Also,

Fedora is often considered “the new Ubuntu” […]

if you want something similar in terms of release schedule and more, but more sane.

Debian

For Debian, I think I might edit the post and include it more prominent too.

With the newest release, it got some very well thought out defaults, like Flatpak support, a more polished DE (Gnome, KDE, etc.) experience and more. It used to be a “server only”-distro in my eyes, but now, it is actually viable for desktop use, if you like stability (in terms of staleness/ changes).

My reasons to not include it originally were following:

  • The installer sucks: It looks outdated/ ugly, and has bad/ unintuitive defaults, making the installation process way more complicated than it needs to be -> I gladly got corrected, and I think I’m just too dumb for that one. It seems to be more straight forward than I had it in my mind.
  • Too lean: For more experienced users, who already know what they want, the relatively minimalist base without any “bloat” (office software, etc.) is great, but I think including said stuff in beginner distros (e.g. by a checklist post-install, or just straight ootb) is a good thing.
  • Missing first steps: Zorin or Mint have a welcome wizard that guides new users through the OS, showing them how to install new apps, change settings, and more. TuxedoOS for example was specifically designed by a hardware company that wants every user, who never installed Linux themself, get a good first impression and being capable to use the laptop out-of-the-box. Debian misses that imo.
  • Flatpaks not being the default app installation method, resulting in very old software.
  • Too old OS in general: I think most DEs in particular have already found their direction, and won’t change radically in the future (e.g. Gnome 2 to Gnome 3), they only get polished and improved. By using 3 year old DE variants, you’ll miss a hell lot of performance and usability improvements in my opinion, and something like Fedora is better suited for desktop use, as it’s still reliable, but more modern.
  • Does everything too well: Debian has every DE and a hell lot of good arguments to use. When I put “use Debian” on every arrow, it gets recommended proportionally too often, and overshadows something like Mint.
  • Stability is NOT reliability!: While Debian is one of the most stable distros out there, in terms of release cycle, it isn’t more reliable because of that. If you mess up your system, there are no recommended-by-default safety measures, like there are on Mint (Timeshift backup) or Suse (Snapper rollback). For me, it is in some regards very comparable to Arch, just that’s frozen in time for 3 years.

Now, I would like to hear your opinion and reasons why I might be wrong.
Do you think Debian should be put more into focus, and if yes, why?
How has your experience been, especially if you started using Linux just recently?

  • acockworkorange@mander.xyz
    11·
    9 months ago
    • Too lean:

    That doesn’t make sense. The whole point of having a funcional “app store” is so you pick and choose what you want. Pre-installed apps are only good for the supplier, not the customer. Debian is user centric.

    • Missing first steps:

    You hit the nail on the head here. I don’t think it’ll ever be on Debian. They’re happy to let forked distros adapt to a desktop centric model and this doesn’t make sense for their stated goals. So beginners will have to find guides online to orient themselves, which isn’t bad but it’s a friction point.

    • Flatpaks not being the default app installation method

    Holy cow did you miss the mark here. Having the option of flatpacks is good, but replacing your package manager for it is bananas at this point. Still a lot to be developed before it’s a smooth experience. Password managers not taking to browsers, etc.

    The biggest issue is that Debian would cease to be Debian, though. You can’t have a stable, unchanging distro if you don’t use it. I don’t even know how to begin, this is a face to face conversation that needs to be had.

    • Too old OS in general: By using 3 year old DE variants,

    3 years are impossible but all the Ubuntu LTS based distros on a 2 year cycle is fine? Again, that’s a feature. For the apps you need a newer version, go for a flatpack. If you you need to have everything shiny and new, then stable / LTS distros are not for you. Go to a rolling release. Can’t have both.

    • Does everything too well:

    Odd take. That’s probably the reason people suggest it in the first place. Put an asterisk on it and add a note that informs the newbies that it’s not a desktop-first distro, even though it works great as one.

    • Stability is NOT reliability!: If you mess up your system, there are no recommended-by-default safety measures, like there are on Mint (Timeshift backup) or Suse (Snapper rollback).

    Very valid. Snapshots are a game changer and just because it’s harder to break your system doesn’t mean you wouldn’t benefit from it. I don’t think it’ll ever be a default in Debian for the same reason as the lack of a welcome tutorial. It’s not the focus.

    All in all, I think your latest post and flowchart is really good. Lots of weird takes here though.

      • acockworkorange@mander.xyz
        1·
        8 months ago

        It’s not default. For a good reason, mind you. But a newbie wouldn’t know to look for it and configure. And when taking about newbie friendliness there are few things more relevant than defaults.

        • lordnikon@lemmy.worldEnglish
          2·
          8 months ago

          ah good point even then it still has to be set up. so the search for it has to take place regardless be it in software center or activities search.