• frezik@midwest.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    20
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    8 months ago

    All the invasions of Iran, Afganistan, Vietnam, Syria, etc where unjustfied invasions

    • The US has never invaded Iran
    • Afganistan was completely justified; the US could not let 9/11 go. Few countries in the world disputed this at the time, even among those unfriendly to the US. You can certainly criticize how it played out–I sure as hell do.
    • Vietnam, yeah, not going to argue there
    • Syria was a complex 13 way clusterfuck. We supported a specific side against another specific side, mostly with material and air support, and some limited ground support. It’s not exactly an invasion, but this is certainly another place where it’s more about how it played out than the support in itself.
    • BrokenGlepnir@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      8 months ago

      Maybe he meant Iraq? I think Afghanistan taught us a lesson in what we’ve become. We were a country that could bomb another into the ground, but then rebuild it into a functional society. Regardless of the morals of that, japan and south korea are functional if unhappy. Unhappiness describes life, but I feel like the contracting on top of contacting and the line goes up profit obsession infected out zeitgeist so deeply, we are no longer capable of rebuilding what we destroy.

      • frezik@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        8 months ago

        Maybe did mean Iraq, but I’m not about to give a russiabot the benefit of doubt.

        • bumphot@lemy.lol
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          19
          ·
          8 months ago

          I did mean Iraq. I am not a russian bot simply because I critisize our governments.

          • nac82@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            8 months ago

            If you’re called a Russian bot so often that you need to have a prepared meme response, I feel like it doesn’t matter if you are or are not a Russian propagandist.

            The cool thing about bad faith propoganda is that eventually, you trick dumb people into repeating it.

            Just look at COVID.

            • bumphot@lemy.lol
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              8 months ago

              It does matter if it is my honest opinion or if I was just wrongfully accused. One would be a critique of me, another is a critique on the propaganda that anyone who disagrees with people in power must be a KGB agent.

      • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        Eh I don’t think we failed at nation building in Afghanistan because we’re incapable of it, but because we didn’t take the time to understand Afghan society and we weren’t putting enough resources towards construction.

    • bumphot@lemy.lol
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      8 months ago

      I did mean Iraq, but Iran is not much better. US staged a coup in Iran to get a puppet government https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d’état#Release_of_U.S._government_records_and_official_acknowledgement Afganistan is not justified, you don’t invade an entire country because of a terroist attack. It was an excuse, just like the Patriot Act for more imperisalism and antidemocratic actions. Calling things invasions are semantics, more important is the bigger picture. US has huge influnace in the region thorug coups and military invasions.

      • someguy3@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        NATO did not invade Iraq, the US did. You are conflating things.

        • bumphot@lemy.lol
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          8 months ago

          NATO is heavily influenced by US. When they ask other countries to join, they wear a NATO hat, when they invade other countries they where their counturies independent hats that just so happens to be in NATO.

          • someguy3@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            8 months ago

            Oops you admit they are not the same, but try to confuse the issue with “influence”. Followed by more with “hat” which is lol worthy. NATO did not invade Iraq. The US did.

            Something tells me you’re trying to be intentionally obtuse trying to conflate everything so ciao

      • frezik@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        8 months ago

        Afganistan is not justified, you don’t invade an entire country because of a terroist attack.

        You do when that country’s leadership is deliberately giving those terrorists a base. Again, few other countries at the time disputed this.

        • bumphot@lemy.lol
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          arrow-down
          12
          ·
          8 months ago

          That is like saying it is justifed to bomb New York because Biden is helping Israel in their genocide. People are not their governments, going to war for revenge is cruel.

          • frezik@midwest.social
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            8 months ago

            Not really. More like if there was a terrorist base in the US that was being used to bomb Gaza directly and the US was giving them money and equipment to do it.

            • bumphot@lemy.lol
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              9
              ·
              8 months ago

              Well they are giving them money and equipement to do it. The only difference is that isntead of one attack it is complete genocide of people and the fact that the base is not in US but in Isreal. But the support is the same and the crime is even greater. There is no sense to blame Afganistan for 9/11 and not US for genocide.

              • frezik@midwest.social
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                8 months ago

                You know what, honestly, yeah, the people of Gaza probably do have casus belli against the US. They merely lack the capacity to do anything.

                • bumphot@lemy.lol
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  arrow-down
                  8
                  ·
                  8 months ago

                  And that is exactly the point. Only thing it matters is that you have the power, all sides do horrible things, it is the power balance that has some meaning, not morality here. Currently power is very much on NATO side. No one can touch US when they commit war crimes, instead the whistleblowers and journalists are the ones that go to prison, like in Assange and Manning case.

      • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        8 months ago

        The current winner in the Middle East is Russia

        Since they are allowed to support the killing of civilians and suppression of rights they have Iran, Iraq, and Syria

        You can see how hard it is for the US to even have a foothold there with the Israel conflict. Which they are forced to support because of the above

        • bumphot@lemy.lol
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          9
          ·
          8 months ago

          US has far more influence in Middle Easst then Russia. Russia didn’t win anything in Middle East. US has control of Saudi Arabia and Israel quite famously. Most other governments where once funded by the CIA as well.

          • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            ·
            8 months ago

            Such control of SA that they murdered Khashoggi with no reprisal and not only is SA China’s biggest supplier of oil but they also have nuclear agreements