Damn. These are Eastern Europe levels of corruption. Has it only gotten this bad in the past few years or were Cameron/Blair/Major etc. just better at hiding it?
I agree with the first point but Rishi definitely isn’t the first kleptrocrat in the job (he might be the richest, but not the first), we have a glorious (/s) history of being ruled over by the rich and privileged (not only in parliament, but the rest of government and of course the royals).
You are correct in essence, I was taking a bit of a shortcut, but Rishi is definately unique in that he is a step up in wealth compared to the traditional Old Boys Network. Ironically that’s the only level up the UK has accomplished since Boris XD
So yes, the rich and privileged have always been the ruling class, once the Millionaires get replaced by Billionaires the rules, and playing field, changes dramatically.
I don’t disagree, maybe I’m just more cynical about how bad it has been already, millionaire, billionaire, both are so many magnitudes of wealth above what we’ll ever have, and are both as disconnected from the rest of us, not to mention both are already funded by and/or are otherwise in bed with the billionaires that aren’t in government, so it doesn’t feel like this is the big shift that’ll make the difference.
Oh, it was bad already. But what most people do not realize how far removed from the “real” world that you, me and yes-millionaires inhabit the multibillionaires are. The “out of touch” elite of the old rich and powerful did exist in the same framework we did. The megarich do not.
The difference between indirect influence and direct power might seem trivial but I am convinced it’s not just fundamentally different but also potentially catastrophic as they might as well be a different species from us for all practical purposes and to have them make decisions that directly influence our lifes but not theirs is Kafkaesque.
Again, I don’t fundamentally disagree, I just think things are already much worse than you’re giving them credit for, and that the person of the top of the capitalism pile being even richer than the others doesn’t have as much of a direct impact on those of us already being fucked by the rich for it to matter.
The idea that someone like Boris or Cameron, or any of the royals, has any idea how people like you and me live is just as absurd as if it’s Rishi.
Othering them (they are absolutely not a different species) and pretending as if the catastrophe isn’t already here (and that Rishi or not, we’ve been ruled over by billionaires for as long as there have been billionaires) just seems to me to be focusing on the wrong part of it all (one individual instead of the system that enables him to exist at all), and is counterproductive.
We have come to fundamentally different insight into the psyches of the rich and the ultra rich. There’s a reason I say that for me they might as well be adiiferent species, we’ll see in the fullness of time how this develops. Both the system and the individual in it can be problem. Glossing over an, in my mind, fundamental difference is a mistake. But that’s my opinion of course. It’s clear you do not get my argument and that’s that.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this subject. Fact is that the world is in serious peril, and the foundations of our system are shaking at its core.
I think probably a bit of both. The Conservatives seem to have done away with the concept of political embarrassment except as a political tool in itself.
I think we’ve been on a quick spiral towards seeing just how much the electorate would deal with.
There are deep parallels with Trumpists and Brexiteers in that their following is almost religious. Pair this with the fact that the UK doesn’t have a constitution, and we’ve found that it doesn’t actually matter if a PM is found to have misled parliament or have been charged by the police for an offence. Politicians can get away with whatever they want, including breaking the law, and people will still rather vote for them.
Damn. These are Eastern Europe levels of corruption. Has it only gotten this bad in the past few years or were Cameron/Blair/Major etc. just better at hiding it?
No, it got significantly worse for two reasons:
Trump showed that operating outside morals or regulations had no consequences, political or financial.
A kleptrocrat is now in the highest office, instead of just pulling strings.
I agree with the first point but Rishi definitely isn’t the first kleptrocrat in the job (he might be the richest, but not the first), we have a glorious (/s) history of being ruled over by the rich and privileged (not only in parliament, but the rest of government and of course the royals).
You are correct in essence, I was taking a bit of a shortcut, but Rishi is definately unique in that he is a step up in wealth compared to the traditional Old Boys Network. Ironically that’s the only level up the UK has accomplished since Boris XD
So yes, the rich and privileged have always been the ruling class, once the Millionaires get replaced by Billionaires the rules, and playing field, changes dramatically.
I don’t disagree, maybe I’m just more cynical about how bad it has been already, millionaire, billionaire, both are so many magnitudes of wealth above what we’ll ever have, and are both as disconnected from the rest of us, not to mention both are already funded by and/or are otherwise in bed with the billionaires that aren’t in government, so it doesn’t feel like this is the big shift that’ll make the difference.
Oh, it was bad already. But what most people do not realize how far removed from the “real” world that you, me and yes-millionaires inhabit the multibillionaires are. The “out of touch” elite of the old rich and powerful did exist in the same framework we did. The megarich do not. The difference between indirect influence and direct power might seem trivial but I am convinced it’s not just fundamentally different but also potentially catastrophic as they might as well be a different species from us for all practical purposes and to have them make decisions that directly influence our lifes but not theirs is Kafkaesque.
Again, I don’t fundamentally disagree, I just think things are already much worse than you’re giving them credit for, and that the person of the top of the capitalism pile being even richer than the others doesn’t have as much of a direct impact on those of us already being fucked by the rich for it to matter.
The idea that someone like Boris or Cameron, or any of the royals, has any idea how people like you and me live is just as absurd as if it’s Rishi.
Othering them (they are absolutely not a different species) and pretending as if the catastrophe isn’t already here (and that Rishi or not, we’ve been ruled over by billionaires for as long as there have been billionaires) just seems to me to be focusing on the wrong part of it all (one individual instead of the system that enables him to exist at all), and is counterproductive.
We have come to fundamentally different insight into the psyches of the rich and the ultra rich. There’s a reason I say that for me they might as well be adiiferent species, we’ll see in the fullness of time how this develops. Both the system and the individual in it can be problem. Glossing over an, in my mind, fundamental difference is a mistake. But that’s my opinion of course. It’s clear you do not get my argument and that’s that.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this subject. Fact is that the world is in serious peril, and the foundations of our system are shaking at its core.
I think probably a bit of both. The Conservatives seem to have done away with the concept of political embarrassment except as a political tool in itself.
I think we’ve been on a quick spiral towards seeing just how much the electorate would deal with.
There are deep parallels with Trumpists and Brexiteers in that their following is almost religious. Pair this with the fact that the UK doesn’t have a constitution, and we’ve found that it doesn’t actually matter if a PM is found to have misled parliament or have been charged by the police for an offence. Politicians can get away with whatever they want, including breaking the law, and people will still rather vote for them.