People in a field shoot without reguard to what’s in the direction of the bullets they are firing. Kids flee, a coach is shot and someone thought they should blame the baseball field builders lol. Mate if you fire a gun and there is any reasonable belief that bullet can strike something other than your target, you should be charged with shooting at that object.
To me that means attempting to kill that coach/kids.
Really? That’s how you choose to debate? By inventing unrealistic scenarios that have likely never occured, or ever will occur? Wouldn’t an indoor firing range have regulations and code requirements that would keep a bullet from going through a wall and hitting someone outside?
That’s like wondering if the rule would apply if an alien spaceship fired a space laser, and deflected the bullet to hit someone, would the shooter still be responsible?
No, Skippy, in that case, probably not. You got me there, I guess you win the entire argument that ALL gun users are taught they they are 100% responsible for the path of their bullet.
For real. I mean the universe rarely deals in absolutes. Ask a physicist if there’s a chance if you can pass your hand straight through a table and technically, yes their is. Even though it’s astronomically improbable.
I just mentioned a scenario I thought of from the top of my head where the shooter wouldn’t be the one liable for what the bullet did. I could come up with more. It’s just silly to claim “100% full stop” with just about anything.
IANAL but isn’t this issue of responsibility obviously determined based on the liability waiver that gun range attendees sign? I’d be pretty shocked if gun ranges don’t include personal injury and wrongful death clauses in their liability waiver.
In the case of a commercially operated gun range, a negligently designed back stop could put the liability on the owner/operator of the gun range or the contractor that installed the back stop rather than the shooter. Because, whose ass do we want raped here?
A gun owner making good decisions such as seeking out safe places to shoot instead of “some woods somewhere”
The asshole who installed a sheet of drywall and called it a “backstop” out of laziness and/or greed, and then literally any caliber of firearm, almost all BB guns and some particularly spicy paintball guns could punch right through it.
The crime there is saying “this is a safe place to shoot.”
Lemmy is full of people with cult-like fanatical hatred of guns and/or cars. I feel like I could give this example: Imagine someone builds a parking garage out of substandard concrete above a Kindergarten. A law abiding driver, in an attempt to park their vehicle legally, parks his car in this garage. It then falls through the weak floor and crushes three children in the kindergarten below. Who’s liable? On Lemmy, they’ll blame the driver becaus–in their religion–buying a gallon of gasoline makes one guilty of all sins and crimes, and the actual negligence of the contractor that built the parking garage is absolved.
You anti-gun and anti-car people need to stop and ask yourselves, “Are we raping the right ass in this situation?”
1oo% true. and yet… who would build a a base ball park right next to a gun range?! not saying they are at fault, but like …really? there must be something i don’t know, like was it an indoor range?
Americans continuing to blame the kids who are being shot at, or absolutely anyone who had anything to do with it EXCEPT the gun nuts, tick, I had that on my bingo card for this thread.
um no? i don’t think kids are choosing the locations of shooting ranges nor baseball dimonds… is that why people are down voting? because they took my issue of building locations as if the children are at fault? crazy
i mean ok, i get it. but OOF. i see also that the shooting wasn’t even at the gun range. still seems like a weird place to constantly hear gun fire during your kids little league game
Sometimes prosecutors who want to charge someone with multiple charges pick the easiest one to get an indictment on first. That lets them hold the guy / force him to post bail while they work on other charges.
People in a field shoot without reguard to what’s in the direction of the bullets they are firing. Kids flee, a coach is shot and someone thought they should blame the baseball field builders lol. Mate if you fire a gun and there is any reasonable belief that bullet can strike something other than your target, you should be charged with shooting at that object.
To me that means attempting to kill that coach/kids.
If you fire a gun, you are 100% responsible for the bullet, full stop.
Not if you are a MAGA, where have you been? There are no consequences for MAGAs.
What if you’re at a paid indoor range and your bullet goes through the back stop wall because the range cheaped out?
If you’re moving the goalposts there, just move the lawsuit right over to the range.
The difference is whether the shooter paid sufficient care and those are clear opposites
Moving a goalpost? Triumph said 100% of the time the guy that shot the bullet is responsible for it. I was just pointing out how silly that could be.
Really? That’s how you choose to debate? By inventing unrealistic scenarios that have likely never occured, or ever will occur? Wouldn’t an indoor firing range have regulations and code requirements that would keep a bullet from going through a wall and hitting someone outside?
That’s like wondering if the rule would apply if an alien spaceship fired a space laser, and deflected the bullet to hit someone, would the shooter still be responsible?
No, Skippy, in that case, probably not. You got me there, I guess you win the entire argument that ALL gun users are taught they they are 100% responsible for the path of their bullet.
Relax. Seems like a silly what if. Not a debate.
For real. I mean the universe rarely deals in absolutes. Ask a physicist if there’s a chance if you can pass your hand straight through a table and technically, yes their is. Even though it’s astronomically improbable.
I just mentioned a scenario I thought of from the top of my head where the shooter wouldn’t be the one liable for what the bullet did. I could come up with more. It’s just silly to claim “100% full stop” with just about anything.
That’s not what happened here, though, is it.
Never implied it was.
I said 100% and I meant 100%.
It’s literally the (tort) law. I don’t think the armchair lawyers here understand anything
If you’re defending\agreeing with Triumph, I don’t think you understand tort law.
Literally just had a case in my Tort Law class about this very thing. I think you don’t know anything at all.
I know in my scenario under tort, the gun range or someone further down in the construction of the range would be found liable, and not the shooter.
IANAL but isn’t this issue of responsibility obviously determined based on the liability waiver that gun range attendees sign? I’d be pretty shocked if gun ranges don’t include personal injury and wrongful death clauses in their liability waiver.
Removed by mod
A question was asked. I answered it. Please indicate where I was “unwilling[] to reason”.
… The part where a shooter is always 100% responsible for the bullet.
That’s because that’s true.
In the case of a commercially operated gun range, a negligently designed back stop could put the liability on the owner/operator of the gun range or the contractor that installed the back stop rather than the shooter. Because, whose ass do we want raped here?
The crime there is saying “this is a safe place to shoot.”
Lemmy is full of people with cult-like fanatical hatred of guns and/or cars. I feel like I could give this example: Imagine someone builds a parking garage out of substandard concrete above a Kindergarten. A law abiding driver, in an attempt to park their vehicle legally, parks his car in this garage. It then falls through the weak floor and crushes three children in the kindergarten below. Who’s liable? On Lemmy, they’ll blame the driver becaus–in their religion–buying a gallon of gasoline makes one guilty of all sins and crimes, and the actual negligence of the contractor that built the parking garage is absolved.
You anti-gun and anti-car people need to stop and ask yourselves, “Are we raping the right ass in this situation?”
Especially if the bullet doesn’t full stop into the target or a barrier behind it.
@LyD@lemmy.ca points out that the barrier had nothing to do with it.
1oo% true. and yet… who would build a a base ball park right next to a gun range?! not saying they are at fault, but like …really? there must be something i don’t know, like was it an indoor range?
Americans continuing to blame the kids who are being shot at, or absolutely anyone who had anything to do with it EXCEPT the gun nuts, tick, I had that on my bingo card for this thread.
um no? i don’t think kids are choosing the locations of shooting ranges nor baseball dimonds… is that why people are down voting? because they took my issue of building locations as if the children are at fault? crazy
These schools are letting woke kids walk in front of bullets.
The outdoor range points away from the baseball field.
i mean ok, i get it. but OOF. i see also that the shooting wasn’t even at the gun range. still seems like a weird place to constantly hear gun fire during your kids little league game
Far west of Houston? All those kids are used to guns already.
Which one was built first?
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Sounds like they are getting charged
“Dangerous conduct”. wtf, I hope that’s a felony, but it really sounds like slap in a wrist like crossing the street not in the crosswalk
Sometimes prosecutors who want to charge someone with multiple charges pick the easiest one to get an indictment on first. That lets them hold the guy / force him to post bail while they work on other charges.
All too often the only justice in the us is a personal injury lawsuit, so hopefully it makes that an open-shut case